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    Remote User:
     
    Date:
    31 Jul 2003
    Time:
    20:30:22

    Comments

    Time to Unionize? I don't have the wisdom to say one way or the other, but I can speculate on a couple of the pros & cons:

    Pros

    Companies who require programmers to waste time & money passing the various certification tests, would have to pay for the tests and the training. My guess is, the tests would lose their importance once the corporations start having to foot the bill.

    Cons

    I'm not sure how you could allow for outside contractors. There will always be a need for outside expertise. It would be a boon for training companies. But the overall effect would be to lessen the quality of programmers (IMHO), or at least chop off the top end, if the union conducted itself the same way most unions do.

     

    Not sure

    Do to the nature of programming, Universities would be non-unionized. I'm not sure how that loop hole would effect Union protection: your thoughts?

    Unionize:
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    Remote User:
     
    Date:
    31 Jul 2003
    Time:
    22:58:16

    Comments

    I have a BS in IndustTech/CompSci. Manufacturing AND Programming! The worst of all lost industries. ('cept farming/ranching etc)

    I used to say; Boeing was in the business of making clerks out of programmers. Once you surcome to it, you become outdated, and then, on a layoff cycle, you are dropped off.

    Boeing laid off 10,000 InfoTech workers in '92. Mostly these are second row programers and customer interface people. I was one.

    I was unemployed 10 months, till I retrained to C. Now that's old. So I retrained to MSAccess. Now that's very too old. I'm doing C#.Net now. When will that be old?

    I hate getting a two year degree every year. But I like it better than the average hamburger flipper.

    The process is the same in the general US. Work'em hard till they'r old or just a little less useful than the new colledge boys, then drop-em. (My brother worked for THE MS since '84, but no more.)

    There IS one more step involved. Make regular workers into 'independant consultants' Then replace them. Then a company can say they replaced only consultants. Like it wasn't significant numbers. Well, 10% doesn't seem like much. But it's 100% in 10 years.

    Of course that doesn't count-up the re-formed busnesses and buy-outs. There is a lot of hidden purpose to that ya know.

    Most good careers turn to consulting at some point. So we've closed that eventual career path now too.

    We must advise ALL IT students to plan for conversion to management, ownership or retirement before 5 years are done.

    Because I'm finding that washing dishes isn't even avaliable to me. I'm overqualified. So I die(just a little).

    Comments

     Arnold Schwarzenegger voted for 187

    "187" was a bill in California created to stop tax-payer funded benefits to illegal immigrants.  Arnold Schwarzenegger voted for the bill.  The bill was passed, however, a judge put the bill into law saying it was *unconstitutional to deny benefits for illegal immigrants. .  Now Californians are paying for social services for illegal immigrants.

    *(only that judge knows how or where the constitution guarantees benefits for non-citizens)

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    11.5
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    13 Aug 2003
    Time:
    08:46:00

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    Yes
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    20
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    No
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    15:58:39

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    42
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    16:36:30

    Comments

    One word - DUA. An India based U.S. labor mill! They supply Government contractors, with exclusive labor, and collect $25.00 per seat. Then, they fill the seat with foreign labor at $15 per seat!!! If seat requires a clearance, they reluctantly fill it with a U.S. citizen, who is replaced as soon as possible, with a cheaper college student (part-time, pending full clearance!), or new graduate! Just check the stats for Lockheed-Martin, on Navy contracts!!! This is why seasoned folks in our 50's are going back to college, to retrain into teaching elementary ed.! We hope, anyway!

    Unionize:
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    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    16:43:39

    Comments

    Keep up the fight!

    Eric Worden ewworden@yahoo.com

    Unionize:
    Yes
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    Not Sure
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    MonthsOutOfWork:
    5
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    No
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    18:28:24

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    18:48:49

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    19:07:29

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    0
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    No
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    14 Aug 2003
    Time:
    20:42:41

    Comments

    You are right on ! Get your replies to Congress. H1B is nothing more than a way for greedy corporations to get cheap labor. AND, how do we know that some terrorists might see this as an opportunity to integrate into our society, and wait their chance to do some real harm ?

    Something else to chew on. Utility companies and all the Health care industry, should NOT be in a stockholder system. They should be mandated to be non-profit.

    Ron N.

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    Remote User:
    Date:
    18 Aug 2003
    Time:
    19:32:09

    Comments

    H1B is not the culprit to the tech industry downsizing. Eliminating H1B won't get me my job back.

    There shift in corporate strategy of the 21st century is called "sub-contracting". Jobs are being replaced overseas. There's an army of cheap programmers in India ready to take our jobs. There's another up and coming engineer/programmer army in Eastern Europe ready to do the same.

    Much like how US doens't have a textile industry anymore, we must branch out into new horizons or else sit and wait for attrition.

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
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    No
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    Remote User:
    Date:
    19 Aug 2003
    Time:
    23:39:59

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Not Sure
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    4 mths
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    26 Aug 2003
    Time:
    21:31:12

    Comments

    It's more important to keep USA workers employed than it is for companies to see profits at any cost. I think we should start a list of companies to boycott who take jobs away from USA workers. That seems like the best way to fight back.

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    Remote User:
    Date:
    27 Aug 2003
    Time:
    05:39:23

    Comments

    This site is so stupid. If you want to live in a capitalist state (i.e. the U.S.), DEAL WITH IT. If foreigners are smarter and more capable than Americans, you can't force American companies to do with lower standards of employees and make less money. Go work the farm or something instead.

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    Remote User:
    Date:
    02 Sep 2003
    Time:
    20:30:01

    Comments

    roho331@netscape.net

    Those of you in congress who still advance the supply side Reagannomics theory should also equally consider the demand side of the equation. The theory advanced by Arthur Leftler (upon which Reaganomics was founded) is not widely excepted among economists. I beleive the theory is perhaps too simplistc.

    I see a stark similarity between the deficits of the Reagan years escalating defense spending to outmatch the former CCCP; and our current military commitments in the Middle East and most recently Africa. Deficits run large in both these periods. (The benefits to the economy are somewhat unclear) If tax and spend is bad policy, borrow and spend is worse, right?

    Do you, the advocates of this H1B policies suggest that our Corporations will make up for lost tax revenue from the sharp decline in the tech employment? Seems rather, that some of these Corporations cannot get offshore fast enough.

    If we are now in recovery, as some say, it is a jobless one to be sure. Whether you believe that the boon of the '90 was spured by the policies of the late '80 or that the prosperity was a fluke of the tech bubble; you must admit DEMAND AND INVESTMENT are in serious trouble.

    I believe that proper economic management can no longer be governed simply by manipulating the Federal Funds Rate. There is, in fact, little else the Fed. can do here to fend off the threatening deflationary cycle. We must look to other ways to stimulate the economy. Decreased employment here will result in a decrease in overall economic activity. In the face of decreased demand, what else can our corporations to keep profits on track but to cut costs. And then, perhaps, companies must lower prices further as they attempt to sell more goods?

    Large Corporations, though technically citizens do not vote. PEOPLE DO. Unemployed citizens, unable to enjoy a tax cut, make for an angry electorate.

    RECONSIDER THIS H1B POLICY. Let's leave the Fed Funds Rate (and tax rates) alone. TRY SOMETHING ELSE.

    Unionize:
    Not Sure
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    No
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    No
    DidYouSign:
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    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    03 Sep 2003
    Time:
    12:45:17

    Comments

    Unionize:
    No
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    No
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    03 Sep 2003
    Time:
    15:46:23

    Comments

    I'm not after unionization, I've seen too many of the negatives of unionization and not enough positives. I am all for repealing H1-B's, though.

    MrDuck

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    24
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    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    05 Sep 2003
    Time:
    14:52:17

    Comments

    They need to extend unemployment again.

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    12
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    10 Sep 2003
    Time:
    16:16:24

    Comments

    We need to come together all programmers and IT professionals...blast our senators and speak up!!! END H1B Visas now!!!!

    Unionize:
    No
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
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    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    11:04:17

    Comments

    Solidarity: YES! Union: NFW. Um, -what- petition? Sign me PHPete

    Unionize:
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    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    14:27:45

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    15:22:30

    Comments

    Unionize:
    No
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    15:42:38

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    Yes
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    18:18:56

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    18:51:59

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Not Sure
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    30
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Considering
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    21:20:10

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    11 Sep 2003
    Time:
    22:41:36

    Comments

    Unionize:
    No
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    No
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    12 Sep 2003
    Time:
    06:59:38

    Comments

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Yes
    PGuildMember:
    No
    DidYouSign:
    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    17 Sep 2003
    Time:
    23:27:55

    Comments

    i'm a kid

    Unionize:
    Yes
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    Not Sure
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    No
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    No
    MonthsOutOfWork:
    18
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    23 Sep 2003
    Time:
    12:55:12

    Comments

    Gave up trying to find decent jobs, the adds for programmers are a joke and a fraud by corporations pretending "not to find" qualified USA talent. Let's outsource the greedy CEO's. They contribute nothing and walk away with our paychecks. We need UNIONS in IT EVERYWHERE !

    Unionize:
    Yes
    Join_Writer_Guild:
    Not Sure
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    No
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    MonthsOutOfWork:
    18
    LongestTimeOutOfWork:
    Yes
    Bankruptcy:
    Remote User:
    Date:
    23 Sep 2003
    Time:
    12:59:58

    Comments

    Gave up trying to find decent jobs, the adds for programmers are a joke and a fraud by corporations pretending "not to find" qualified USA talent. Let's outsource the greedy CEO's. They contribute nothing and walk away with our paychecks. We need UNIONS in IT EVERYWHERE !

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    Selected Articles -- Reprinted with permissions from the Authors
    Bigger problem

    The big problem is that India and Pakistan have nearly went to war several times. They both have nuclear weapons. What would happen if we moved most of our tech jobs off into India, and then there was a nuclear war?

    The next step is to move critical network administrative services offshore. When this gets ramped up, expect all the NOC jobs to be moved to India. Imagine a war then.

    Suddenly, your phones die because the Bell NOCS are non-existent. Your various businesses that use remote computer services go under, no longer able to get to any of their remote data. The stock market crashes from the losses both of their own systems and the failing of other businesses. The major television networks go down, all their video and such in remote datacenters gone in a flash of heat and light. Think it can't happen? Why not?

    India and Pakistan have already had troops on the border and been lobbing mortars across over Kashmir. They have both been increasing their rocket technology. They have both tested nuclear weapons.
     

    Matt
    CSO
    gencomplabs.com
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